Circles
I met a nice chap Imek on stumbleupon and we had a dizzying exchange...
Imek: It seems they [anarchists/socialists/communists] understand capitalism as the state of affairs today, but what they don't understand is that this isn't capitalism. True capitalism can't exist while nations squabble away while manipulating or disregarding the rights of their own people.
Me: "It seems they understand communism as the state of affairs in China, Cuba, and North Korea today, but what they don't understand is that this isn't communism. True communism can't exist while nations squabble away while manipulating or disregarding the rights of their own people."
Imek: By the way, I tend to use the word communism to refer to applied communism - you know, the kind that's murdered over 100 million people - because that's the definition that most people recognise. I don't have a problem with voluntary collectivism between free individuals; just when it's violently and repressively forced on people.
Me: "By the way, I tend to use the word capitalism to refer to applied capitalism - you know, the kind that's murdered over 100 million people - because that's the definition that most people recognise. I don't have a problem with voluntary exploitation between free individuals; just when it's violently and repressively forced on people."
Imek: I think you'll find all the "capitalism" murders can be attributed to a state - fascist, monarchy, republic, whatever - being given too much power. But killed by the actual economic system? Yeah, I'm not so sure.
The fact is that, overall, collectivism is more conducive to statism and western individualism is more conducive to freedom and prosperity: I'd rather have been born in Finland than Soviet Russia, West Germany than East Germany, South Korea than North Korea, Taiwan or Hong Kong than Mainland China, etc... Or, for death tolls, you could compare the Red Scare in the USA with Stalin's purges. I could go on, but I can never really be bothered with online debates.
Me: I did it again, sorry.
"I think you'll find the "state" can be attributed to capitalism - CEOs, bankers, lobbyists, whatever - taking too much political power. But killed by the actual philosophy? Yeah, I'm not so sure.
The fact is that, overall, greed is more conducive to statism and empathy is more conducive to freedom and prosperity: I'd rather someone view me as a person and not a consumer target; I'd rather be an important and respected member of the community, not another cog in a machine. I'd rather have an economy composed of clean, sustainable industries instead of dominated by dirty, war-mongering, state-creating mega-conglomerates. I could go on, but I can never really be bothered with online debates."
Thanks for typing most of this, Imek!
Imek: It seems they [anarchists/socialists/communists] understand capitalism as the state of affairs today, but what they don't understand is that this isn't capitalism. True capitalism can't exist while nations squabble away while manipulating or disregarding the rights of their own people.
Me: "It seems they understand communism as the state of affairs in China, Cuba, and North Korea today, but what they don't understand is that this isn't communism. True communism can't exist while nations squabble away while manipulating or disregarding the rights of their own people."
Imek: By the way, I tend to use the word communism to refer to applied communism - you know, the kind that's murdered over 100 million people - because that's the definition that most people recognise. I don't have a problem with voluntary collectivism between free individuals; just when it's violently and repressively forced on people.
Me: "By the way, I tend to use the word capitalism to refer to applied capitalism - you know, the kind that's murdered over 100 million people - because that's the definition that most people recognise. I don't have a problem with voluntary exploitation between free individuals; just when it's violently and repressively forced on people."
Imek: I think you'll find all the "capitalism" murders can be attributed to a state - fascist, monarchy, republic, whatever - being given too much power. But killed by the actual economic system? Yeah, I'm not so sure.
The fact is that, overall, collectivism is more conducive to statism and western individualism is more conducive to freedom and prosperity: I'd rather have been born in Finland than Soviet Russia, West Germany than East Germany, South Korea than North Korea, Taiwan or Hong Kong than Mainland China, etc... Or, for death tolls, you could compare the Red Scare in the USA with Stalin's purges. I could go on, but I can never really be bothered with online debates.
Me: I did it again, sorry.
"I think you'll find the "state" can be attributed to capitalism - CEOs, bankers, lobbyists, whatever - taking too much political power. But killed by the actual philosophy? Yeah, I'm not so sure.
The fact is that, overall, greed is more conducive to statism and empathy is more conducive to freedom and prosperity: I'd rather someone view me as a person and not a consumer target; I'd rather be an important and respected member of the community, not another cog in a machine. I'd rather have an economy composed of clean, sustainable industries instead of dominated by dirty, war-mongering, state-creating mega-conglomerates. I could go on, but I can never really be bothered with online debates."
Thanks for typing most of this, Imek!
posted by Mookie at 9:05 AM
1 Comments:
"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail."
Beyond that, all hierarchies are suspect, no matter what they call themselves.
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